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Wolf735 · Aug 9, 2021 11:20 AM

I've got a pretty basic understanding of papering, breeding levels, etc., which I'm using to work on my established lines. But I really want to try and break into bootstrapping for show and awards purposes. I am beginning to earn awards for my 2nd/3rd gens but I love seeing other players talk about their bootstrap projects!

I'm essentially looking for some advice as to how to get started. I know that when line breeding, the rules are different for quality when spaying mares vs when you are bootstrapping, and with bootstrapping the emphasis is on the stallions. So does that mean I should start with foundation low papered mares and breed to an established high papered stud ABOVE foundation/2g? Or should I breed evenly at first and then branch when I enter the different generations?

THEN my question is, when bootstrapping, are you breeding specifically for PT? In which case you definitely would run some testing on the foals. Or consistency/paper levels/etc.

Obviously color is no longer a massive concern. I will probably keep one or two of my lines going but if I'm going to change up my goals, color and genes will matter to me a lot less.

If you have any examples as to what a "good" bootstrap goal would look like I would appreciate that as well!

Lallyhop · Aug 9, 2021 12:30 PM

In terms of “getting started”, it depends on if you want outside help or if you want to do it strictly within your own stables.

A lot of people will start with an outside stud because it’s pretty easy to pick up a decent star stud for cheap to start out with. Then once you get a colt who tests better, he can replace and you can keep going from there.

Going by yourself, I’d start with either the highest stud you currently have, or make a new one to work with.

For goals, I’d recommend you start with a goal of producing only or mostly gold mares. Then as you get more comfortable with a workflow and the process, you can start refining - maybe you want to trim out the lowest PTs and start testing more strictly to get the highest numbers, maybe you want to start going for the heavier bone weights or the shortest ones, maybe you want to trim out the plain ones and keep the flashiest ones, whatever floats your boat! You can also mix and match too.

BlaxkDiamond · Aug 9, 2021 12:36 PM

We had a discussion about bootstrapping on the other server and Ammit cleared it up a bit.

a superior stud being bred to an inferior mare.

This is the correct use of the term boostrap. It does not mean uneven breed. It means taking a stud like a star and using him to get show horses as fast as possible. Once you are breeding like to like even if the line WAS bootstrapped you are no longer bootstrapping.

I don't bootstrap on this server but I do on bluegrass... Or probably the correct term would be. I am Long lining Unevenly lined horses. It seems to me that you already have a goal in mind. Getting to the top of the leaderboard. So you would need to decide how fast do you want to reach your goal?and do you want to do it will all home bred horses or with outside stock?

If I personally was going to start a bootstrap/long lined herd on this server, I would buy the highest Gold papered mares I could get my hands on, and either a high Star stallion or straws. And use them as the foundation for my line.

On the other server I breed for both quality and PT. I also put an equal amount of importance on my mares quality as I do my stallions. My mares have to test past a benchmark mare to be kept in my line, and my colts would have to test superior to their sire. I am having issues at the moment because my stallion is so superior to my mares that I can't get a colt to even test aga my herd sire. And this season all my fillies while they tested superior to my benchmark mare only tested aga their dams. I also change my mare requirements every season or two so I am constantly keeping better mares, hence my current dilemma.

I hope that helps a bit.

pestilenttempest · Aug 9, 2021 2:20 PM

So when it comes to bootstrapping there’s is a cap to paper, and a cap to pt score. The pt score cap is 15 pt for a natural born, and Can only be over 15 pt by using double boosting. The papering cap can’t be explained but I often sell colts at the cap for others to test against.

I never SBA or BA my bootstrap horses but instead test their against tiers. All of my stallions that I keep have to be at the papering cap + a high pt. Mares typically have to be higher than their mothers before cap + as good as or high pt score.That way I am constantly improving my lines. I am extremely specific in my bootstrap program and most people aren’t quite as aggressive as I am as far as quality.

I originally developed tiers by taking my highest gold papered mare at the time (by comparison testing) and labeling it hbm, or high bench mark. Tier 1 testing superior to hbm, tier 2 higher than T1. Tier 2 ended up being the breeding cap for my horses. Depending on where you start your golds at you could have more tiers.

At PT score goes up, typically papering goes down. So it’s a constant fight to het high pts and high papers without boosting. It can definitely be done but it takes a lot longer. You can decide which is more important for you. Personally i went first for the paper cap & then used boosting to get me to the pt cap fast.

I wanted the highest or that I could get, and managed to get above the pt cap with double boosting. Unfortunately I’ve reached the pinnacle of what can be achieved with bootstraps (I was hitting plenty of 15 pt foals yearly & max cap) so I’ve backed off quite a bit. If you are looking for a stud I’d be willing to search through my boys for you. Just send me a pm with what you’re looking for and I’ll see if I have one that fits.

Also let me know if any of this doesn’t make sense.

Windigo · Aug 9, 2021 11:36 PM

If you have a specific leaderboard in mind, that'll help you choose the mares/studs you want to use. I started out knowing I wanted high pt/high quality DP horses, specifically liver chestnuts. Back then I didn't have very many options to choose from when looking at horses for sale, so I started out with a couple of A papered studs and the highest mares I could find, which were a completely mixed herd lol. I wound up nearly giving up on that goal because my line stagnated for a while and was concentrating on my other boot bunch(grullo pearl KP, cause they were easy to find lol)
Eventually I got aggravated and tired of looking at grullos cause they weren't my main goal. I BA'd everything from both lines, sold the rest that didn't come up to par and went on the hunt for my original goal again. I got my hands on a couple studs that were true game changers, and with some select GMting thru the seasons, my horses are securely on the liver leaderboards now. I've added other genes to the herd along the way, and I'm super happy with their overall look and quality. I still fight with PT at times but my herd is steadily rising. Of course, I still want to add more bling, but all in due time lol.
I'm now working on upping the quality of my fantasy boot herd, which has been a rollercoaster ride from the start lol. Goals for that group are to pretty much have every fantasy gene I can fit onto my horses, on them, and quality/pt that will hold up with the nonfantasy herd. I'm still chasing that pipe dream of having the ultimate hom axiom, hom ice, hom rainbow riot all in one super boot stud. And I've barely started adding in phantoms and newer genes I've bought into recently, but I'll get there lol. I feel like I'm going backwards in my goals when I breed my fantasy mares to non fantasy studs and vice versa, trying to raise quality but lose color. Or when I breed the mares to my loaded out fantasy foundie studs to get more genes in the line lol. That bunch is definitely an exciting, fun challenge lol.

RubyJoFarm · Aug 10, 2021 7:40 AM

I only bootstrap when my herd needs show ponies. I keep all G2 spelds, and keep all the "bootstrap" high PT spelds for show. These groups seem to work well for me. Once I finish using them... the mares leave. Lol

Dinascar · Aug 12, 2021 4:34 AM

If I were you, if I wanted to hit the leader board I would go for a different era to 0 for both studs and girls as Era 0 is pretty much at the top already! :)

Wildland Acres · Aug 13, 2021 9:02 PM

Hmm, it depends, I am used to the era 0 bootstrapping stuff. That era has already reached cap so if you are looking for high pt fast there are a lot of us with more colts than can come out our ears we can send you with, then breed mares to that one and keep the fillies better the their mothers... In the same time it is at the top and so the top horses are clones in that one.
Right now I am planning on starting a second bootstrap herd for 7th era with a boosted exper stallion bred to mares 7th era or higher and then keeping the highest fillies and going to whatever stallion tests superior when they come up. I think 7th era would be a good one to have a bit of challenge at the beginning but be able to get to the leader board soon. This is the stud I am going to use for this when I get done with him, hopefully soon if you would be interested in using him for starting a 7era line. It would be fun with friends but I know getting a stud for that era would be difficult.

Dunbar

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