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radish · Dec 25, 2020 12:44 PM

Cadmium Ephesite

I am reviewing my ponies and came across this one. Genetic testing says she's Liver Chestnut but the image looks like a black horse! I didn't realize liver could get this dark? :O

FancyThat · Dec 25, 2020 12:55 PM

Yep they can! I wouldn't think they would get that dark either!

Beezie · Dec 25, 2020 1:25 PM

It’s because she’s Hom for DP :D

CeffylDwr · Dec 25, 2020 1:26 PM

They are affectionately called Black Livers. It's what happens when the horse is hom for all sets of darkening genes and no apparent lightening genes. So Hom Sty and Hom DP will always give you this black look! Whereas Hom Sty Het DP or Hom DP Het Sty will give you what you most commonly think of as Liver chestnuts.

Her mom is Black Liver too but she has flaxen lightening her up a bit because its affects the A mom carries while your girl got the At (brown) which also helps keep her looking darker.

HTRanch · Dec 25, 2020 1:56 PM

Does Agouti affect red-based horses? Radish's horse is A/t so if what Ceffyl said is true then that would still lighten her a bit. I thought Agouti only affected black-based horses.

CeffylDwr · Dec 25, 2020 3:04 PM

@HTRanch nope you are correct I mistyped and got my whole paragraph discombobulated. The flaxen affects the e (red based) and since mom is hom f that lightens her up a bit.

I have found that livers with just At and not A though do tend to look darker then others that carry A and even A+ seems to effect the shading somewhat even though Agouti does have to have E to make them Bays. Not sure if that's actual gene expression or just how the game seems to roll them out.

Ammit · Dec 25, 2020 4:41 PM

There is no difference at all between agouti types on chestnuts. The game renders them the same.

radish · Dec 26, 2020 11:09 PM

Ceffyl -- I had wondered how she would look if she had been f/f like her dam. I'll have to keep an eye on my A/t or t/t chestnuts to see if I notice anything. I am breeding for S+ and DP in my herd because I've been curious to see how dark the chestnut will go. I don't think I had looked too closely at this foal when sorting pasture babies, so when I was working on a spreadsheet and making notes I saw her image and just went "err what!" :O

WolfDen · Dec 28, 2020 2:29 PM

Okay, have you guys noticed that if it is S+/Sty and DP/DP it is lighter than Sty/Sty and DP/DP?
My horses seem to only turn black if I have the latter.

WD2 Merry Shakes

WD3 Comet Quake
Is there another criteria I am not understanding?

Ammit · Dec 29, 2020 4:15 PM

Sooty plus changes the distribution of sooty markings creating those dapple areas. It is not darker than normal sooty.

radish · Jan 7, 2021 11:36 PM

Good question, WolfDen! I had been breeding to find out what would happen and got my first S+/Sty and DP/dp baby recently. I was really wondering how the Sty+ and DP would work together. I figured I'd have some dark dappled areas contrasted with lighter areas, and looks like that's expected. Thanks Ammit for chiming in!

Quetenite Mimetite A

Will be nice to combine the Sty+ DP with flaxen. They won't look as polished as the Sty/Sty DP/DP flaxens, but I don't mind a bit of the warmer red pigment peeking through.

WolfDen · Jan 8, 2021 9:36 AM

I do love the S+ dapples :D

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