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In this Discussion
- Bandit1119 April 2019
- BlaxkDiamond April 2019
- Cheers April 2019
- HTRanch April 2019
- Justa April 2019
- pestilenttempest April 2019
- SummertreeFarms April 2019
Question on Skill levels Concerning Horses
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So for most of my life my horse knowledge and riding skill level, has been judged into one of three categories. Beginer. Intermediate. Advanced.
Now I’m finding those three levels totally inadequate to use as a judging basis. For figuring out how competent a person or child is with horses. A parent can tell me their child is a beginner, but that can mean anything from; they’ve sat on a horse once when someone led it around to, to they can walk, trot, do a bit of loping, stop, and turn the horse where they want to go. I have called myself an intermediate rider, and had my instructor tell me I was either almost advanced, to advanced.
So what I would like you to do is tell me, what you think, in levels 1-10 what each person should know, before they move up a level.
With say levels 1’s minimum sitting on a horse with someone leading it. To level 10 being whatever you consider a very very good horse expert.
I’m curious how each persons expertise will show in their different answers.
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10. -
Generally, this is an extremely hard thing to put together. Everybody has their own opinion on what makes a good rider. I also find that every discipline has their own set of standards. I am a western rider and the following will tell you all about it
/edit Wow and the message board completely deleted the huge post I had saved. I’ll come back to this when I’m not sleep deprived -
So I grew up riding English in the US with a mostly combined training/eventing background and some Pony Club in there. (Just so you have my basic background).
1) leadline/dude ranch style trail riding that requires no skill, aptitude or necessarily interest in horses. Rider has almost no knowledge of horse care, tack, or riding technique. Requires supervision and/or assistance to do the simplest horse related task.
2) beginner with interest: can lead a trustworthy horse with supervision. Learning to groom (bare basics with appropriate help if needed), names for horse body parts, names for grooming equipment and tack. Learning to tack up (again with help if a small child, little upper body strength). Learning to mount on their own (with a block). Learning to control a horse by themselves at a walk and trot, both directions and also learning proper riding position, learning to post and sit the trot, change diagonals. Leadline/longe/roundpen lessons to allow the rider to concentrate on position without needing to also direct and provide impulsion to the horse. Learning to untack and cool out their horse after riding.
3) advanced beginner: can be trusted to catch, groom and tack up their horse for riding with little supervision or help except where needed for height or sheer muscle (this is where stubborn ponies will refuse to pick up feet, or raise their head to avoid the bridle, or blow up their stomachs to avoid the girth). Beginning to develop seat and hands. Learning to canter/lope. May be introducing ground poles/cavaletti. Know most basic horse body part names, names of tack and grooming equipment, horse colors and breeds, particularly those common in that particular riding facility. Beginning to learn the purpose of certain types of tack, can start to differentiate between, for instance, different kinds of bits.
4). Beginning intermediate: beginning to be a thinking rider. Competent at all three main gaits, beginning to learn about lateral work and jump low jumps. Beginning to learn about different riding disciplines within the scope of their area. Beginning to ride over terrain if possible. Beginning to learn about conformation and basic veterinary issues (main preventable diseases, parasites, how to check for injury, basic first aid, basic lameness treatments). Learning to wrap a leg appropriately, learning about different boots and wraps to protect a horse when riding if relevant. Able to break down, clean and reassemble tack correctly. Competent to groom thoroughly for basic riding.
5). Intermediate: able to handle a range of horses on the ground, in a range of safe situations. Able to identify most or all horses at “home” facility, discuss color, breed, personality of each. Trustworthy to perform a range of barn chores where necessary. Able to groom horse to a high standard. Able to adjust new tack or tack up an unfamiliar horse with supervision/help to make appropriate choices but displays some understanding of the mechanics of tack fit and purpose. Both competent and confident at the three main gaits on a range of different horses. Learning about how to adjust both the speed and stride length at all three gaits. Competent to leg yield, learning more advanced lateral work. If rider wishes to jump, confident over low jumps (2’-2’6”) of a variety of types. Learning to “see” a distance, learning to properly walk a stride (measurable consistent step length so can walk a course). All riders competent to “pop over” obstacles met on trails. Ditches, water and banks being introduced to the event rider. Confident to ride over as much terrain as is available close to home. Learning to prepare a horse for a trailer trip including packing equipment etc and to wrap and load/unload a safe horse. Increased knowledge of conformation, veterinary issues.
6) advanced intermediate: becoming a competent and reliable horseman, with a good basic understanding of all aspects of horse care including feeding, shoeing, preventative care, barn and pasture use and maintenance, riding surface maintenance, etc. Able to prepare the riding area for whatever use needed (ie, set up jumps or a dressage arena etc). Has an understanding of their own riding goals and some ideas of how to reach them. Able to ride without supervision (though certainly still requires instruction to develop current and new skills)—has begun to develop the feel necessary to understand what the horse is doing and how to respond to work towards a goal. Also beginning to learn when to say “yep, you’ve got that, let’s end for today or go do something fun now.” If interested, jumping higher jumps and more complicated combinations/courses. Confident over level appropriate banks/ditches/water obstacles. Lateral and collection/extension work continuing. Rider has a strong and reliable leg and hand, nearly has an independent seat.
7) early advanced: continue to develop horsemanship skills as the opportunity presents itself. At this point the rider should be able to manage most daily situations at the home facility or know who to call when something goes wrong. Riding skills should continue to develop to gain a truly independent seat and, if desired, to continue to move up the ranks of whatever show discipline. Rider, if desired, should be able to consider working with a younger or less experienced horse to “bring it along”. Rider is able to instruct level 1 and 2 riders. If desired (and legal) rider is able to hook up the trailer and pull horses over short distances.
8) advanced: rider is able to ride almost any horse presented well—safe, quiet, competent—and begin to assess what that horse needs to work on to improve it. Similarly able to handle most non-riding situations both at home and at other locations.
9) professional: riding at whatever level of competition desired, with multiple horses in the “string” whether self owned or not. Bringing along at least one young horse. May be instructing/coaching riders at lower levels. Competent to evaluate horses for sale to decide whether they might work for the riders discipline (with veterinary help). Fully competent to manage a riding facility/farm if desired.
10) professional horse person riding or instructing at the top level of the sport. To me these people are people like George Morris, Beezie Madden, Denny Emerson, Sir Mark Todd, Mary King, etc. They are not just at the top level of their sport but they are also well respected as horsemen throughout the riding community. Just because you go to the Olympics or the equivalent level of competition for your sport, that wouldn’t put you in this top tier for me. -
@pestilenttempest, I’m looking for a variety of answers. I know everyone will have different opinions, that’s what I’m looking forward to the most about my question. I’m teaching riding lessons and am wanting to incorporate levels for my students to be able to accomplish something. Almost everyone does better when they have something to look forward to. I’m just drawing a blank on ideas for what they should know in each level. :)
@Cheers that is a wonderfully thought out detailed list. Looking at it I’m noticing some holes in my own knowledge that I will probably be working on filling in sometime in the future. Mostly to do with treating injuries. Thank you :)Thanked by 1Cheers -
Wow, so different from what/how I learned! You're gonna get a dose of my history along with my rankings.
I took western lessons for 2-3 years as a kid, but never got beyond the beginner stage because the structure of the lesson was the same every single time....in the barn aisle with some cones down the middle...it was pretty evident that my trainer didn't think there was a reason to teach me much more than that. She knew my family couldn't afford a horse.
1. Raw beginner - loves the horsies, holds on to the saddle horn the entire time. Pony rides at the fair.
2. Beginner - can actually sit a trot without flopping around. Remembers the name of the horse they rode last time, but not how it looks. The horse needs to be saddled and ready to ride when they arrive.
3. Advanced beginner - Can actually locate the horse they are supposed to ride and halter and lead it to the grooming area. Starting to learn how to groom and saddle. Can steer the horse around a figure 8. Doesn't screech in fear when they lope for the first time.
I was given full access to a 3 year old green broke mare when I was in middle school. The owners had ZERO knowledge about horses. The first time I rode her my (non horsey) mother lead her around a bit, then I was left on my own for the next 7 years. I had a bent screw driver for a hoof pick, and a broken golf club with a broken rein tied to it was my lunge whip. I could do all the things, but I didn't have the background to know WHY they were done that way.
4. The "Some knowledge is better than nothing" Intermediate - Knows how to correctly enter a stall/paddock and halter the horse. Pretty solid at grooming and saddling. Can go out on an easy trail ride with the instructor. Competent at walk/jog/lope. Still getting over all the book learning, to see how it's done in real life.
5. Intermediate - Gets the horse, grooms, saddles without supervision. Figuring out that cues don't have to be big sweeping gestures and can be subtle requests. Can rate the speed of the different gaits. Safe alone on a simple trail ride.
6 The "Ok, this one is serious" Intermediate - When they see the Beginner rider putting the halter on upside down, is able to correct them and safely remove them from the breeding stallions stall. Can be trusted alone on most trails. Helps hold horses for the vet and the shoer.
Fast forward to after college. I moved to Los Angeles and literally cold called stables in the phone book. I ended up at a barn where the owners had previously been fairly well known and pretty sucessful at western pleasure and trail. They had switched to cutting and both husband and wife were heavy drinkers. They took advantage of me and had me giving lessons and taking out trail rides without paying me, and I loved it. One day I got in trouble because I was showing an "advanced" student how to use his seat. I was told not to teach him too much because he would quit taking/needing lessons (and paying for them!). When I left, however, they gave me the yearling colt I had been training.
7 The "Figuring it out" Intermediate/Advanced rider - Recognizes common injuries and knows how to treat them. If they are not supervised they won't die. Starts to pay attention to feeding practices, and structured training processes. Ready to teach the dreaded summer camp classes for the rich kids who are more concerned with the humongous fart the horse just let out, than the fact that they are trying to saddle a yearling.
8 The competent Intermediate/Advanced - ready to start working with young stock, halter breaking, saddling, etc. Can assist the instructor with lessons. Has seen some of the questionable practices and understands why they are not acceptable. Can ride bareback on a horse that has been sprayed with Show Sheen
When I left Los Angeles I moved to San Diego to live on a horse farm/ranch. 20 acres, over 100 horses. This stables strength was trail. World show quality trail. I was the broodmare manager, but did all kinds of different things. THIS is where I finally figured out the WHY of all the things!
9. Advanced rider - Can perform training tasks with minimal instruction. Understands horse behaviors, and the different types of horse people. Recognizes good practices and can even improve on them. Can handle basic vet needs, and can instruct others on more advance practics such as breeding/account keeping/boarders.
10 NFR -
I ride western and have done a variety of disciplines. I started out volunteering at a hippotherapy facility, showed western all-around for a while, and now have found my happy place with trail riding, western dressage, and ranch riding. I have a strong natural horsemanship background.
1. Absolute beginner - Lead line, pony party style. Learning basic safety. Require supervision at all times. Personally I like to start beginners out with a bitless bridle or halter with reins attached until they develop some hand stability.
2. Learning about tack, anatomy, and grooming. They are starting to be a little more independent but still require supervision. They may not have total control of their horse by themselves yet, but they are learning balance on the lunge line. Even if they have not yet mastered them, they have head knowledge of basic cues (go, stop, turn). They can lead their own horse.
3. Independent walk/trotter, starting to canter on the lunge. They can identify anatomy, tack, and grooming tools. They can tack up mostly by themselves if they are physically able. They are beginning to learn basic lateral movements from the ground (shoulder yield, hip yield, etc). They are developing a seat. They can go on short trail rides with a more experienced buddy. If they are interested in showing, this is when I would let a student enter a walk-trot class.
4. Advanced beginner - Independent at all three gaits. Their hands are steady enough that they can use a real bit, if appropriate for the individual horse. They are learning basic lateral movements in the saddle (turn on the fore and hind). They are beginning to learn how to tell where their horse's feet are.Their seat is continuing to develop and they don't have to rely on their hands to maneuver. They may not be confident with a lot of horse-related knowledge, but they know who to ask and they have a desire to learn more. They can catch, groom, and tack up completely independently. They are beginning to encounter more difficult terrain on the trail.
5 Early Intermediate - They have a rough idea of how to read their horse's signals and are becoming more intuitive with their cueing. They are beginning to learn about collection/extension/etc. They are being expected to rely on their seat to maneuver their horse. They are learning slightly more difficult lateral movements (half pass, sidepass). They can tell you exactly when each foot hits the ground/comes off the ground. They are comfortable to face a variety of trail terrain. They are beginning to be more independently knowledgeable in nutrition/health/feet etc.
6 Advanced intermediate - They are naturally aware of their horse's body and position. They are learning more difficult lateral movements like hip in/out and shoulder in/out. They are solidifying all the information they learned in stage 5. They are learning about training or finishing horses.
7 Early advanced They can bring along a young/green horse. They can do all the groundwork in all the situations. They can train in a professional setting under someone more experienced. They can teach through advanced beginner.
8 They can start a horse. If they are interested, they may train horses for others.
9 Their blood cells have officially taken on equine DNA. I'm thinking of several older horsemen/women I know that have been riding since before they could walk and have been dedicated to the art of working with horses since then.
10 The literal cream of the crop. The greats for me would be Ray Hunt, Mark Rashid, and Buck Brannaman. Their horsemanship has become an art independent of the training styles of others. They've put in the effort to develop their own personal techniques and put their horses first every time. They leave a legacy by educating others.
Of course, this is a best case scenario. My riding progression hopped all over the place. I helped with my first leadline lessons as a 3, finished my first green horse as a 4, and was probably a 4/5 before I met a riding instructor who taught me about using my seat or having quiet hands. Many many many blessings to the horses who put up with me and kept me safe (and still do, lol). Currently, I would put myself as a 7 on the cusp of 8 if I could find the time and money to put into advancing my skills.ID 43830
It's nice to be back! :)
<>| Era 16 project - belton spotted tobianos |<> -
@ConfluenceFarms, I love your western levels, which fit more with my experience. I especially got a good laugh from the riding bareback on Show Sheen. Definitely takes skill! :))~*~ Justa ~*~
Main ID# 44842 Alt ID# 54460
Chronic sufferer of shiny pony syndrome breeding all shades and sizes of Dun. If I can help you with anything, drop me a PM! :)
she/her -
The actual story is even better - I had a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other and the horse spooked. Lost the cigarette but stayed on and saved the beer. It's one of the highlights of my equestrian career! :/
Thanked by 1HTRanch -
=)) =))
Sounds totally like something my niece would do! She'd rather ride bareback than with a saddle, and is why I know for sure riding on show sheen is tough. I saw her slide off over a colt's tail once when she was on him backwards (long story. lol) and land on her butt still holding his leadrope, leaving her and the colt both completely confused. I swear, if a horse could say "What just happened?" that colt was totally doing it. :))
When I rode bareback, it was mostly as a teenager on a tobiano Foxtotter mare who was totally what people mean when they say bomb proof. The closest she ever got to a spook was stopping stock still and snorting when she saw a rattlesnake, but that was long after I saved up enough to afford a saddle to go with my new trailhorse. :D~*~ Justa ~*~
Main ID# 44842 Alt ID# 54460
Chronic sufferer of shiny pony syndrome breeding all shades and sizes of Dun. If I can help you with anything, drop me a PM! :)
she/her -
I find myself thinking about this topic here and there.
My introduction to real live horses was a week long horse day camp the summer before grade 8 along with my grandma taking me to her friends to give me a lesson on trotting. When we got home (we lived in northern Ontario and mom took us to visit family in southern Ontario) my dad took us to introduce us to his new girlfriend that lived on a farm and had 2 - 2year olds and a 3 year old. He repeatedly told me the whole drive that they were not broke to ride so don’t be asking to ride them because I couldn’t. First thing said when we arrived was “hey hows it going? nice to meet you. You wanna ride that horse there?” As she points to the loose horse standing in the driveway. I said no and some other guy that was sitting on the deck (there was a whole bunch of people) got up and jumped on him and rode him back closer to the house before jumping off. By the end of the night I did get to ride him bareback with a halter and lead.
After that it was pretty much the horses are in the field, their stuffs in the barn. If you catch one, you can ride him. Put as much or as little on him (I preferred bareback and a halter and lead rope) and See ya when you get back. Try not to be too late.
Dad and I lived on the farm a few years. Then when they split and dad moved to town he found another fiend with horses that would let me ride if I did some work around the place (mainly clean a stall or two. Help with hay) and I’d bike there and again was allowed to do whatever with whichever.
After high school I moved down south to be closer to my mom and my aunt lent me my cousins horse but the barn I chose didn’t have access to trails or fields or quiet roads to ride down like I was used to and I had to learn how to actually ride “properly” so I didn’t get bored out of my mind. There was a riding instructor there at the time and although I didn’t have money for regular lessons she would let me ride with her students and would call out things to adjust if she saw me riding alone and would take me to shows with her students so I learned a lot from her. I’m still at that barn but it’s gotten a whole lot quiet over the years and now there’s just 2 boarders so I struggle to keep my riding going forwards.
My cousins also wanted to learn so I was having to figure out how to teach them and what I should be teaching them when all I really knew is that the way I was taught could have ended up a whole lot worse if I were to go that route as the older one was not nearly as observant or super interested in fixing her mistakes as I was at her age.
From the lists above I would still classify her as beginner and I’ve been keeping her at walk - trot, catch and lead your horse, be able to tack up with the odd prompt to fix something. steer your horse, able to do simple showmanship and horsemanship patterns if your not too nit picky about being precise, small trail courses,
Her younger sister is much more keen and eager to learn but much shorter so can’t reach the horses back to do any sort of tacking up but I do have her halter and lead Riley around and she walks and steers unassisted. I have her walk him around the arena doing the alphabet with the dressage letters making her stop at the letter and back him up if they overshoot and turn and go to the next letter not just got around and around the outside. She can now get him to trot on her own but I do jog along beside his head just in case but she doesn’t really steer well at a trot) She rides in an English saddle (her sisters position is better in an English saddle then western) but haven’t really moved onto posting with her. I’ve had her try a few times and she understands but just isn’t strong enough to keep at it but she’s still light enough it doesn’t make Riley make faces if she flops about a bit.Breeding even generation Grullos with Ice -
This is super exciting to see. I’ve always lived in a very sheltered horse community, ranching/Rodeo, and my “training” consisted of catching a horse and riding bareback until we were strong enough to saddle the horse on our own. I just got my own horse last April, so everything I’ve learned was on someone else’s horse.
I’ve only recently started to learn/use leg cues; extension, and collection are two things that I’ve mostly red in books and watched YouTube on. I know the idea of collecting, but I could probably count on one hand the times I’ve ridden a horse that was collected and for the most part they were doing it on their own. Extension well all I know about that is my vague ideas. On the other hand I can ride almost any horse someone points out. I haven’t rode anything truly nasty though.
So I’d probably be a mixture of levels. Just because of my lack of training in some areas.Thanked by 1SummertreeFarms -
That idea of mixed levels is probably true for a lot of us, BlaxkDiamond. I know a lot of people who are from the 'tossed on a pony and sent down the trail' school of riding. Boy did we learn a LOT!
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@ConfluenceFarms. I didn’t say it was bad way to learn, or even bad in general. It’s just holes in my knowledge that I need to get filled sometime. Hopefully this summer I’ll begin to get extension and collection figured out.
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I also am a graduate of the Riding School of Hard Knocks. I didn't learn about equitation, collection, or extension until I had been riding (and helping teach!) for six years. It's certainly a memorable way to learn to ride, and kudos to you, Blackx, for continuing your horsey education!ID 43830
It's nice to be back! :)
<>| Era 16 project - belton spotted tobianos |<>Thanked by 1SummertreeFarms -
@HTRanch Part of me thinks it’s the best way to learn, the other part of me thanks God every day that I didn’t die from all the stupid things I tried. Needless to say I’m torn in what is a good way to learn. I probably wouldn’t be so focused on filling in my knowledge holes. But my three year old mare loves finding them, and proving just how little I actually know. So filling them in has become more important if I want to turn her into a good educated horse.