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Example of PT and Papers - Hunt and Jump 2 - Forum
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In this Discussion

Example of PT and Papers
  • I know we have this tendency to use PT score as a shorthand for breeding ability, but as Ammit has stated repeatedly, the two are not perfectly related. I have a great example to show to you!

    My 9th generation pasture gave me three intact colts (Breeding Advice), all of which tested As Good As sire. All three are **Star papered. Nat One has a PT score of 12.50 and is inconsistent. Mario has a PT score of 13.30 and is consistent. Gygax has a PT score of 12.50 and is inconsistent. (They were all tested as intact colts.)

    Gygax is the only one who tested As Good As my current G10 sire (their competition for breeding when they grow up). Mario and Nat One both tested Worse Then. Gygax is the best breeding prospect of the three, despite being an inconsistent shower and "only" having a PT score of 12.5.

    Remember, the best PT score is not necessarily the best foal producer.

    image
    L10S Nat One

    image
    L10S Mario

    image
    L10S Gygax
    ~Purveyor of the finest riding horses in Rakia~
    Specializing in dun with the perfect amount of white.

    Always ISOs: Dun Splash Expros, show ponies, Onyx ponies, star riding horse straws
    Thanked by 1Summervine
  • Thanks for such a great example!

    Is breeding advice the best way to determine breeding ability? Do you have other/additional suggestions of ways to compare or rate breeding level?

    #40789
  • Both Breeding Advice and Strict Breeding Advice will compare the foal to both parents. BA allows foals that are slightly worse, as good as, or better to pass; SBA only allows foals as good as both parents or better than both parents to pass. SBA effectively runs the foals through a finer tooth comb. However, as you get closer to the breeding cap, fewer and fewer foals will pass SBA since there is less upside "better" range for the foals to fall into.

    I also do benchmarking using comparison - so I'll test foals against the best in pasture from that year or the year prior (they can only be tested against the same sex, so if the best in pasture this year is a filly, I may have to compare my colts to an earlier best in pasture. Benchmarking gets expensive quickly though, so I'd really only recommend it when you're no longer struggling for hbs every month.

    As Good As is an "about" figure - the as good as horse may be exactly the same as the comparison horse, slightly better, or slightly worse.

    In my example above, all three colts were as good as their sire, but Gygax evidently has a slightly higher breeding score since Gygax is also as good as Atatraxis, but Mario and Nat One are worse than Atatraxis. You can use comparison testing to determine while horses are better for breeding, even if they paper the same.

    For example, let use the example of fillies A, B, and C that are all blue papered and test Better than their red dam.

    If you get the following three results from three tests:
    A tests As Good As B
    A tests Worse than C.
    B tests As Good As C

    Then you know the C is the best of the three, B is the second best, and A is the worst.
    (A is worse than C. Because B is As Good As both of them, we know that B falls slightly above A but slightly below C.)

    edited: I was suddenly overcome with self-doubt on how BA and SBA worked. Looked them up again and corrected them.
    ~Purveyor of the finest riding horses in Rakia~
    Specializing in dun with the perfect amount of white.

    Always ISOs: Dun Splash Expros, show ponies, Onyx ponies, star riding horse straws
    Thanked by 1Summervine
  • This is why it’s important to keep benchmarks. With max ability it’s easy to get lazy and stop testing everything. But it’s easy to lose that 1-3% in the mix if you aren’t testing everything. Especially bootstraps for the breeding cap.

    Also, it’s just as important to get worse pt scores. Breeding ability before pt score. ^_^

    Nowadays a lot of people don’t understand the struggle of getting their or scores in line with their breeding ability. I feel old, haha. “Back in my day, we couldn’t just max ability. We had to boost worse paper scores to bring up pt scores” ^_^
  • Thank you, both of you, I really appreciate your experience and insights :x

    #40789
    Thanked by 1FeldingFields

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