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Seeking Advice: Building a Fantasy Line - Hunt and Jump 2 - Forum
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Seeking Advice: Building a Fantasy Line
  • Hi. I’d like to make fantasy horses. My specific goal would be pale bodied horses with dark manes and tails. (In real genes my favorite is W1.) Pale blue horse/dark blue mane, etc.

    I understand closed genes. I think I’m chasing watercolor.

    I assume I’ll want to start with pale horses. Does a horse being white mean that it’ll be pale for this purpose? What I mean is that I know the fantasy genes show up on extensive white factor but do they show up on limited white factor Pearl horses?

    What determines the color of the watercolor? Some horses are pink and others blue, but I don’t see a difference in genes. Is it possible to breed for purple, for example, or is the color random each time?

    I assume, when breeding for color, ba and sba become unwanted? Or is there a color related reason to sba? I assume breeding for color has a lot of overlap with bootstrapping as far as tactics?

    Finally, do you have any advice for someone starting a new line?

    Thank you all for your time.
  • If you're after pale bodies but coloured manes and tails, I would recommend paintbrush cool for blues and purples. For the pale bodies, you could certainly breed for extensive white factors, you could also go after any/all the dilution genes! (like dun, cream, pearl, champagne)

    There is no way to guarantee watercolour hues, but you can reroll portraits until your preferred colour comes up.

    In regards to breeding quality, it depends entirely on if you want to for it! I like to breed for quality and PT, so my altered foals grow into nice show ponies!


    This horse has paintbrush cool!
    image
    9394689
    ID# 25784
    Thanked by 1SummerMonarch
  • Does that mean for fantasy overlays white and white factor are roughly the same canvas? They don’t react differently or something?

    Paintbrush cool + nacr + platinum might be exactly the nonsense I’m looking for. What’s the difference between paintbrush (I assume their is a paintbrush warm) and watercolor?

    Thank you for taking the time to explain this and show me things.
  • The white expressing genes (W20/W1/W2/W3 etc, splash, Lp, etc) are all affected by the horse's individual white expression factor. Some have a white factor of none, some have a white factor of extensive.
    Here's an example of white factor none, medium, and extensive, respectively.
    image
    BV2 9419792

    image
    BV5 9433229

    image
    9419680

    You can see how the tobiano expressed in each of these horses gets to be more and more white coverage as their individual white factor increases.

    Paintbrush only alters the pigment in manes and tails, the rest of the body is not affected by paintbrush. Watercolour will alter the colour of a horse over its whole body, including the mane and tail.
    Here's a paintbrush warm, and a watercolour horse as examples.
    image
    9394809

    image
    BV8a Dancers Fire teS


    Happy to help. :)
    ID# 25784
    Thanked by 1SummerMonarch
  • Paintbrush JUST colours the mane and tail. It does absolutely nothing to the body color, which means if you like playing around with patterns, you’re good as long as you don’t end up with so much white that the mane and tail go white (which will cover up your paintbrush).

    Paintbrush comes in cool, warm and “prism” which is all the colors. If you grew up watching Rainbow Brite, her white horse with the rainbow mane and tail had paintbrush prism for the purposes of this discussion.

    Bay paintbrush warm
    image
    Suspect Trailer 2


    Silver bay paintbrush warm
    image
    Italic Observe 2


    Bay paintbrush cool
    image
    Massachusetts Planet 2


    Silver bay paintbrush cool
    image
    Visit Girl 2


    Bay paintbrush prism
    image
    Summit Countries 2


    Silver bay paintbrush prism
    image
    Preceding Legendary 3


    Thanked by 1SummerMonarch
  • If you’re looking for a pale but fantasy colored horse with a darker colored mane, I think you’re probably looking for watercolor, not paintbrush.

    The darker the real life base color under watercolor, the more saturated the fantasy color will be. Here are some examples.

    Watercolor bay:
    image
    Hammer Tubes 2


    Silver bay
    image
    Rainbow Gift phDApYZqMi2


    Dark brown
    image
    Fireplace Median 2


    Buckskin
    image
    Stories Printing 2


    Perlino dun
    image
    Pure Light AccDTP2
    Thanked by 1SummerMonarch
  • I hope that is all helpful in the sense that now you have more questions to ask!
  • First, this is an amazing thread and I owe you virtual coffee or cookies.

    Second, extreme white factor overwrites fantasy color genes? I thought we wanted extreme white factor to make a pallet for the color.

    Third, what is thunderstruck? I searched the forums but it’s a lot of complaining rather than explaining (no judgement) and I can’t tell the difference between it and paintbrush single color and maybe glowing.

    Fourth, waiting to buy these genes is hard.

    Fifth, thank you again. All wisdom is welcome.
  • So, white = patterns
    White factor = size of patterns.

    White20 (W20) will increase the amount of white as well, but everything else (tobiano, white 1, white 8, etc) are all just patterns.

    Honestly, with white factor it depends. Watercolour does not override the white on a horse. But something like the Axiom genes will result in funky stuff on a horses white. For wrong warp, the white will turn black.

    Het Wrong Warp with socks and blaze:

    image
    5322414


    Hom Wrong Warp with more extensive splash:
    image
    SBA5569466 STS ichnWW


    Thunderstruck is part of the "rainbow riot" group, which does include watercolour, nacre, and the paintbrush genes. Thunderstruck, probably a bit weirdly named, adds Lightning bolts onto the horse, and gives them a little bit of a glow. From what I know it doesn't effect the base coat or mane/tail at all, apart from the glowing aura it grants. The Paintbrush genes though will change the colour of the horses mane and tail.

    Thunderstruck on a brown dun:
    image
    5497971 thunder warp dun
    Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
    Prices are almost always negotiable.
    On the look out for pointed creates
  • If you haven't yet, I recommend saving this link. It's a forum post that has links leading to the announcement and explanation of many genes. All of the fantasy/bought genes should be on it. Sadly, the forum search is not friendly at all.

    https://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/85288/links-to-new-fantasy-and-licensed-gene-introductions#Item_13
    Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
    Prices are almost always negotiable.
    On the look out for pointed creates
    Thanked by 1SummerMonarch
  • @summermonarch, as Obsidian mentioned, white patterns = white markings and white factor = size of markings. In 99% of cases (looking at you, Lp complex) genes that affect a horse's base coat color will be overridden by white patterns.

    I think the concept you're thinking of is pigmentation. This is the factor that determines how light or dark a horse's base coat color will be. Agouti extension genes (bay) and dilution genes (cream, dun, silver, etc) make a horse's coat lighter. For example, dun+bay=bay dun, and cream+chestnut=palomino, etc.

    Sooty and DP will make a horse's coat darker and more intensely pigmented, as demonstrated by others above. Be aware that Ammit is planning on updating bay soon-ish which means that each copy of dominant E (eumelanin or black pigmented base coat) and A (Agouti extension/bay) will also darken a horse's coat.

    If you're looking for a light body with a darker mane and tail, I highly recommend bay, buckskin, and buckskin pearls as others have mentioned! Paintbrush cool on a dark mane will also add some pizazz and should be fairly well pigmented if the mane and tail underneath are darker than the coat.
    ID 43830
    It's nice to be back! :)
    <>| Era 16 project - belton spotted tobianos |<>
  • This thread is phenomenal. Thank you for the effort y’all put into teaching. I’m sure I’ll have more questions as I start trying things out! Again, appreciation all around.
  • @SummerMonarch honestly one of the best things you can do for yourself in this game is learn to use the Horse Search. I would recommend mixing together looking at horses in the Breeders Clubs and then trying to find horses that are similar to them in the Horse Search as you see things that are super cool.

    Every once in a while someone will stumble upon a weird combination of genes that look amazing together. For instance:

    This is Ice 10. It’s cool, for sure, but can look really faded out on any light base coat color.
    image
    Biological Discrimination 2

    image
    Plebeian Creation 2

    image
    Jambul Finding 2


    And this is Wrong Warp. Again, pretty cool, especially if you mix it with lighter colours.
    image
    Networks Barcelona 2

    image
    Stowaway Nick 2

    image
    sMoon Power VhAZqrL6

    image
    Smoothie Puts 2


    But how would you ever guess that when you put the two together, you get this awesomeness?
    image
    Forests Break 3

    image
    Restriction Axolotl 6


    And if you add Thunderstruck you get this insanity:
    image
    Crude Anxious 5
  • And you can go down that same kind of rabbit hole over and over again.

    Which is why I have more than 10,000 pixel ponies and can never decide how to integrate new genes into my line.

  • If you want a white horse with a fantasy colored mane and tail, gray does not override the paintbrush genes. When they came out I added them into my red based gray line to get just that effect. The new gray update makes them even more gorgeous. Here are some examples
    Paintbrush cool and paintbrush warm age 25
    image
    Cerulean Cadence 1X


    Paintbrush Prism age 20
    image
    7060289


    Paintbursh cool age 16
    image
    Yard Syncopation 2B


    Paintbrush warm age 13
    image
    8158767


    Paintbrush prism age 10
    image
    8505496


    Paintbrush cool age 7
    image
    8905474


    Paintbrush warm age 3
    image
    9320916
    Breeding high quality Sheldasen horses. Liver chestnut, DP mushroom, and rose gray riding horses. Dun cobs with all the patterns. Watercolor, Wrong Warp and ice on mixed body types.
    Stable ID 88
  • @Cheers Restriction Axolotl 6 and Crude Anxious are SO dreamy! :x

    Thanked by 1Cheers

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