HGG Community Forums

SmokinBlack · Nov 29, 2020 9:44 PM

Ok heres is what is making me crazy. I thought at first sables come from champagne with Brown gene and Dp because the few i have gotten had those genes with sty, so then i got one without the dp, so I thought ok it must be the brown and Champagne gene. But i just added the brown to my out with a bang, and its not Sable. What order do the genes have to be in to make Sable?
Thanks for any help :)

G3WtrSableChamp B1010in

G1 BangBang

I figured it out , has to do with combo of Black , Brown and Champagne
I did a practice on another horse to figure it out
:)

G1 Aknael Y1040

OndowaStables · Nov 30, 2020 1:34 AM

You don't need homozygous E for sable champagne. The base color just needs to be brown. E? Ata CH? or E? AtAt Sty? CH. Your Out With A Bang has a regular bay gene, so is not sable.

Summervine · Nov 30, 2020 1:49 AM

Ondowa is correct, the base needs to be brown.

It's also helpful to understand the order in which the various bay genes are dominant! As you realized, you need at least one black gene to have bay - this is because bay is a restriction of black pigment. So if there is no black pigment (ie, a horse with no E gene), there's nothing for the bay genes to restrict. But the different bay genes also show up in a specific order:

Wild Bay, A+ or just + = dominant over all others
Regular Bay, A = dominant over everything except A+
Brown, At or just t = only dominant over non-agouti (a)

This means that only (At/At) or (At/a) with at least one champagne gene (Ch) and one black gene (E), will result in a sable. It's why it's fairly rare color, even when you have a Champagne HH.

Haltanny · Nov 30, 2020 7:04 AM

AtAt browns need a sooty, sooty+ or DP to be sable because without a darkening gene, it's just bay, so it's just amber wirh champagne.

MamaMiaStables · Nov 30, 2020 7:48 AM

Kwaheri Jingo Km Splus

If you would like, you can take a look through Jingo's lines and see what he throws. He's hom for E, At, sooty +, DP, and Champagne. Dragon's lines (his G2 son), is also worth a look.

Jingos Dragon BIP G2

You'll see more color variations from him because he's not hom for At, DP, sooty +, or E.

I hope it helps to look through some sable lines?

MamaMiaStables · Nov 30, 2020 7:54 AM

Kwaheri Mort Km W10

Mort has no DP, but is hom for E, sooty, At, and Champagne.

Seaswell · Nov 30, 2020 7:04 PM

Silver Sable is one of my favorite recipes. I've been trimming my fantasy lines to include more of it.

G3A6972516

G26972166

AlKhamsaArabs · Dec 2, 2020 10:57 PM

I did try to change the e to E and surprise no luck
So with out with a Bang i need to change A to t ?
@ Haltanny i thought Dp had something to do with it but my water color boy is not dp yet he is sable

I gmtd her brown on one side changing only 1 to brown which i thought would work since it did on practice horse, my practice horse i did on dams side and she is sable without sooty or dp
But it does have to be in a certain order i think?

G1 BangBang

OndowaStables · Dec 3, 2020 4:02 AM

Order does not matter. What matters is that the horse does not have A or A+.
Having a darkening gene (Sty, S+ or DP any will work) is only needed if the horse is AtAt.

Haltanny · Dec 3, 2020 7:12 AM

Its not just DP, it's any darkening gene. The darkening genes are DP, Sooty and Sooty+. Plus, your watercolor boy is sable because he only has 1 copy of brown. He has 1 recessive black and 1 brown, so that makes him brown/sable. A horse that has two brown genes (t/t) and zero darkening genes is labeled bay. Like this:

7065039

If i add 1 sooty or sooty+ or DP, he would change to brown. Like this:

Personally Bob

Anything with E/- and A+ is wild bay, no matter what the other "a" is.
Anything with E/- and A is regular bay unless its A+.
Anything with E/- and At/a is brown.
Anything with E/- and At/At and no sooty, no sooty+ and no DP is bay.
Anything with E/- and At/At and at least one darkening gene is Brown.

SmokinBlack · Dec 3, 2020 10:06 PM

@Seaswell i really love the silver Brown and Sables.
Love the foals!!

Ok on my clean Slate my practice horse
Only darkening on her is Black, I added the brown and champagne to make her Sable, its why i thought it would work on the out with a bang but it didnt.

Here is genes on clean slate
Secondary DNA Set
Phenotype: Sable Champagne Dun Sabino Splash

Pigment Modifiers
Black: E/EBay: a/tDun: D/DFlaxen: f/fChampagne: -/Ch
White Markings
Kit Genes: -/SB1Splash: SW1/SW1

Additional Info
White Factor: LargeChimerism DetectedInheritance Chance 50%

G1 Aknael Y1040

Seaswell · Dec 3, 2020 11:32 PM

Really the only difference between the Bang and Slate at this point is on the bay allele (t/t or a/t).

There are two recipes for brown, and you need brown to make sable.

I recommend this one to get all sable babies.
E/E t/t sty/sty or E/E t/t DP/DP
It's darker, but everyone gets the genes.

If you prefer a lighter look, and want black foals too, then starting with E/E a/t or t/a will make it easier to find Foundation stock to breed to.

Most of my mares are black based. Against t/t studs I get all the fun browns. I still slip little a's and e's on my boys cause I like blacks and chestnuts almost as much as brown.

SmokinBlack · Dec 6, 2020 1:43 AM

I like the the DpDp, but im still having fun messing around with it
Im using my new stud on the sable mares.
I like the darker look better

G2DiaChin PlushR1010in

Summervine · Dec 6, 2020 2:37 AM

EDIT: OH I see, it's the Homozygous t that requires darkening, got it. I think it's weird though lol.

You don't need a darkening gene to make sable. you just need black, brown (t), and champagne. See example here:

SH Bounty

For those that don't want to click -
The color listed is: Sable Champagne Splash Frame
the genes are:
Black: E/e
Bay: t/a
Cream: Prl/-
Flaxen: -/f
Pangare: -/p
Champagne: -/Ch
Splash: SW1/-
Frame: O/-

SmokinBlack · Dec 6, 2020 9:27 AM

Oooo i like that darker look. But yeah you can do
A couple few ways. Lol it is weird
Thanks everyone for helping on this
I love seeing the sables!!

Members log in here:
Username:
Password:
By hitting the above you signify that you agree with our rules and conditions.
Forgot your password?

HGG Community Forums

Join our discord server!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Join our discord server!

Enlarge Your Pastures

Reminders!