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In this Discussion

Feedback/Advice?
  • Not sure if I want to sell or keep for my stud group, so I figured I’d just see what kind of feedback/advice I can get on them!
    Also if someone could explain tiger eye to me :D
    Thank you!
    Both Hom dp, gp, kp, sa, sty+, snf
    One is Hom te2, the other has te1/te2
    image
    KCL KeepYourSecrets

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    KCL Caffey ZEDGSK
  • Honestly I wouldn’t keep either if it was my breeding program, the first boy is inferior quality to his dam and the second boy should have reached an A paper. I would put the mares in pasture right now and leave them there until they have a 30 day bonus next season. That should be enough to get you a good quality foal.
  • Would you mind explaining to me how you can tell he should’ve been A papered? Also if it would be possible or unlikely their offspring can get better papers because of that information?
  • I’m partially basing off knowledge of the breeder of the dam, partially off the available information on both parents pages.
    The sire is an ExPerf base, meaning he’s a 105% breeding ability. This puts him 5% from an A paper, meaning when bred to a comparable mare (think an ExPerf mare), it’s very attainable to have an A/Blue papered foal (in fact many require A/blue in their second generations when the parents are ExPerf/ExPro quality).

    The dam is a second generation mare, by an ExPerf stud and out of an ExPerf mare. Knowing the breeder of this second generation mare, she definitely passed SBA and likely is at least about as good as her dam. This should put the dam right at about a 105%.

    So, taking the ExPerf stud and breeding him to the mare can definitely produce an A/blue foal. However, if it’s done by hand without any sort of bonuses it can be harder.


    It’s always possible to breed foals with better papers from either of those two colts, given the right conditions and proper mares. Ideally, any mares they would be bred to should be second generation mares that compare about as good as an ExPerf/ExPro foundation. Even better, if they compare superior to an ExPerf/ExPro foundation. You could even go to 3rd gen red papered mares, again as long as they compare about as good as (preferably superior) to ExPerf/ExPro foundations.
  • Do you think if I bred back to Dam they could produce a better foal?
  • It’s worth a shot, can’t hurt to try. But definitely make sure the dams have full pasture bonus before you do, to give you a better chance at getting a higher quality foal.
  • Heres my take.

    If you want the best possible papers/breeding ability in your line, try and stick with even breeding. No, i dont mean by generation (ie foundation to foundation and so forth)- by paper. In my own personal breedings, im now trying to only keep horses that test superior to their sire/dam, whether it be paper wise or not. If you keep foals from the parents and breed them BACK to the parents, that could help in the gene field but it could be a step back in "quality". (Say that there are two lined horses, that tested worse than their parents. But they passed BA. To get better horses you breed them back to each other, which is fine if you want to focus solely on their genetics. Keep this in mind though- their offspring could potentially pass SBA, but it wouldn't be a huge leap. They would only be compared to their parents, not their great grandparents or so forth. They would be slightly better that mom or dad, but could still be way worse than great grandpa/grandma or whatever)

    Buuut in the end its your decision and your choice on how you play, id say go ham wild and choose whichever stud strikes at your heart strings.

  • To answer your other question, Tiger Eye makes the eyes a yellow/amber color when homozygous. It's easier to see on some base coats than on others. There are two variants, TE1 and TE2, and of those TE2 is a little bit lighter.

    As far as which one you would keep goes, I actually have some different advice than others - I would say to keep the top boy because even though he is B-Papered, because he passed BA we know he is fairly close in quality to his Blue-papered mama - so he is a high-papered B. The other foal could also be a higher B-paper but we don't have any clues about where he lies in that quality range just by looking at his pedigree.

    Your other option to determine for sure which colt is a better paper quality would be to do some comparison testing - which can get spendy. Start by comparing them to each other - is one superior to the other? Then compare them to their sire - do they compare differently? (Comparing them to their sire will also give you an idea of if they're advancing in paper quality).

    Obviously, pasture breeding with a bonus would give you a boost in foal quality, but I'm guessing these foals were straw breedings since the sire is owned by someone else. I would ask for more straws if you can and keep trying for an A-papered foal (if you are going to use good quality second-gen mares, that is a possibility). But since straws are not guaranteed, I would still keep one or the other of these guys.
    ID 43830
    It's nice to be back! :)
    <>| Era 16 project - belton spotted tobianos |<>
  • TE1 and TE2 are identical in game.
    Need to contact me? Read this first. Only send me a PM for PayPal issues or if I ask you to. Otherwise, make a forum post. You will get a better faster answer by making a post.

    I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )


    she/her
    Thanked by 1HTRanch
  • If your goal is to advance in paper level as fast as possible, I probably would snip, sell or turn these guys into girls.

    If your goal is close to either or both of their colors/genetics and they work well for those goals, I would keep at least one of them a boy for now and see if you get anything closer to your goal next season.

    If your goal is a mix of the two, or is to advance in paper level but maybe at a slower pace, with 2 or 3 generations at each paper level before you progress to the next one, I would definitely compare the two colts to each other and keep the superior one if there is one.

    Two things I always remember when I get a colt that doesn’t quite measure up for me in some way but might be difficult to replace: 1) you can always turn them into a girl and hope that with a really good stallion and pasture bonus that they throw a couple of top of their range foals
    2) remember it takes mares an extra season to be breedable, so especially if you’re just starting a line, you have an extra season to come up with the perfect colt. Let them sit in a barn for a season and then look at what else you get!

    Also, there is always boosting! It’s quite expensive but it’s an option if you’re truly in love and want to pursue those paper levels faster ...r
  • Thank you all for your advice, there’s a lot to consider! I do love their genetics, but I’m aiming to have quality foals as well. As of right now I have them up for forum auction in case anyone isn’t as concerned about papers, but I might comparison test and keep one of them as a side gig to see what happens!

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