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Timber · Jun 6, 2020 2:11 PM

I've been gone for quite some time and I've missed a lot. Especially a good portion of my show herd passing over the rainbow bridge. To recoup my daily earnings, I figured it would be in my best interest to start a bootstrapping herd.

Instead of tracking down a star stud for probably way more money than I have on hand, I made an exceptional producer foundation Stallion and took him for a stroll through the GMT lab.

Presenting:

Von Willebrand

I recently found out I have Von Willebrands disease so it seemed fitting to start a blood bay herd with him as the patriarch. He's already popped out an A papered colt but I've got mares chilling in my pasture to try for something better later.

My questions are this:

1. Is this a good start for a bootstrap or should I bite the bullet and clean out the rest of my Hbs for a Star stud?

2. I know the quality lies heavily with the Stallions but is it worth while to cull lesser mares as well or keep them on for show herd fodder? Like if I get red mares, should I immediately boot the yellows and focus on the reds, or will keeping the yellows on pop out some good show horses?

FallenShadows714 · Jun 6, 2020 2:22 PM

Join the Bootstrapping Buddy Chat! I’m sure someone has a spare colt (or ten) that they would happily sell cheap (or give). I haven’t bred my bootstrap herd yet this season or I know I would have a dozen for you to choose from. Honestly, you are really just doing even lined breeding when you start with a foundie, unless you are breeding him to much higher quality mares. I would recommend picking up a star stud and either some blue/gold mares, or breeding the star stud to foundies and then only keeping fillies that paper higher than their dams as breeders (the lower papers would go to the show barns).

CeffylDwr · Jun 6, 2020 2:24 PM

You can definitely start with your own foundie stud and go that route, if you want a star stud to put with some of the mares feel free to peek in this barn, there's a few I wont part with but there's a fair amount of good star studs in there (a couple of the higher PT boys but there's still plenty in 13+ PT range)

https://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?owner=47002&owner_lm=like&barn=33034&barn_lm=like&runsearch=1

KittyPeri14 · Jun 6, 2020 2:36 PM

2. I would keep the yellows until you believe you have enough reds, and then save them for a later time. Then I would focus on improvement (again, I am new, so don’t use this advice unless others agree).

FallenShadows714 · Jun 6, 2020 2:41 PM

@KittyPeri14 Bootstrapping is the purposeful breeding of high quality studs to lower quality mares (or vice versa) to rapidly improve breeding ability in the foals. You don’t actually run the foals through BA or SBA, just gene test, PT test, and paper (and comp test if you want) to make sure the lines are increasing in quality. A lot of people do run the colts through BA, and send them to the show barn as a way to get high PT show ponies and then let the fillies grow up and breed back to their sire.

Dinascar · Jun 6, 2020 2:46 PM

The bootstrap chat is where to go - I can let you have a bootstrap stud at not too much money :)

Cheers · Jun 6, 2020 6:00 PM

Plenty of us will be happy to sell or lend you a high Star stallion for not much in the way of hbs. If you ask, plenty of people will let you have some nice BS fillies too, though of course they are always a little harder to come by.

I would use your new boy as an anchor for new even bred lines and start a side herd of bootstraps to quickly build a show herd. If I can help you with a quick infusion of established show ponies to bump your daily bonus, PM me! I can give you 10-25 well established ponies from my herd.

RunFarAway · Jun 6, 2020 6:33 PM

As others have said to bootstrap it's most effective with a stud that is a star. I'm also happy to help out with horses if you're interested.

Wildland Acres · Jun 6, 2020 6:49 PM

Using an exceptional producer is lined breeding unless you buy a bunch of gold mares to breed him to, which would be far more expensive.
I have more high star colts than I can shake a stick at, I just haven't had the time to geld or sell them all. I usually sell them for 5k each. I bon't think I have any that color, but let me know if you want one.

darkpixe · Jun 6, 2020 7:11 PM

He's gorgeous! (I agree with Cheers; even if you don't stick with him for bootstrapping, he would be a fabulous founding father for an even-bred line!)
For bootstrap purposes, it's more efficient to start with the best stud you can get...
I definitely have Star boys (although they're probably not as good as what other folks have) & some Blue girls available (clicky), if you want any of them, my general policy is 2500 per. I may have some Gold mares to add, once I go through everyone... (I'm way behind).

pfrsue · Jun 6, 2020 7:51 PM

That's a gorgeous stallion and I love the idea of allowing him to be the patriarch of his own line. But I really do recommend you keep a separate bootstrap line to ultimately help fund your other projects.

From my experience, boot stallions are easier to come by--and less expensive--than quality boot mares, so most bootstrappers who are just starting out usually get the best stallion they can to improve on their mare creates.

Along with several others here, I can also set you up with a bootstrap stallion if you'd like one, and probably a few good mares as well. Definitely join Bootstrap Breeding And Sales (we're a friendly bunch!) or reach out to any one of us directly.

MamaMiaStables · Jun 6, 2020 8:49 PM

Like everyone else, I'm willing to help too. :)

I'm newer to it, but I have a few mares I might be able to retire this year, and some studs you're welcome to as well. :)

Haltanny · Jun 6, 2020 9:34 PM

I'm getting ready to reduce my bootstrap mares, so i have lots of high Blue mares and will have some Gold fillies. I'd let them go pretty cheap to help out a newer bootstraper. Most of mine will be het snowflake with lots having DP, GP and/or KP.

Timber · Jun 7, 2020 2:11 AM

Holy Horsetails, Batman! This is why I loved this place! Y'all are so wonderful.

So I was thinking of Line Breeding. Got it. I would like to take y'all up on y'all's offers. I think going the Star stud route would be easier. I'd have more control over color and variety. I'm looking for size rather than color, but at the same time I'd rather work with low risk colors. Less braining that way. I deal in drafts, the bigger the better.

By the by, is the infographs for DP identification and Risky genes still around somewhere? I can't find them.

EDIT: Whoo... I just looked through some of y'all's barns. I'm like a kid in a candy store. PMs incoming. Also that name generator is a piece of work. Some of these names had me rolling.

FallenShadows714 · Jun 7, 2020 9:04 AM

@Timber DP actually shows up in the gene tests now, as does GP, KP, and snowflake. So no more guesswork!
And this should take you to the Risky genes table.

https://hj2.huntandjump.com/faq.php#870

I have a couple mares up for sale in the Bootstrap chat, and likely will have more in a few days. I can offer straws from my top two boys (they have both been on the leaderboards, Wild Victory took 3 champion spots in his first season last season).

BS STS Victorious Dreamer

BS Wild Victory

Or here is a search to their colts this season. They won’t pass BA since both sires are boosted, and they will all paper star (I just haven’t papered them yet, most get snipped before being papered).

https://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=2&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&bty=1&nbty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=42413&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=0&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d3=&d2=&d4=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&mu2=&mu1=&chn2=&chn1=&b2=&b1=&tig1=&tig2=&tig3=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&ice14=&ice15=&ice16=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&nexw=&rainr=&rainwt=&rainpl=&raint=&rainna=&PhnN=&PhnBts=&PhnGho=&PhnSpi=&PhnSku=&PhnPmk=&PhnAtmn=&PhnLace=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1&offset=25&offset=0

HTRanch · Jun 7, 2020 9:18 AM

Looks like you got a lot of help already lol. But, if you did want Willebrand's descendants in your bootstrap line, you can "reverse bootstrap" and breed him to some *gold mares instead of the other way round.

HiddenCreek · Jun 7, 2020 11:42 AM

I've got a few spare studs I'd be happy to give you, you could breed them to his 2g mares :) I've got lots of extra so if something else strikes your fancy lmk.

13.1 PT passes SBA and AGA sire

5042102

Found a draft stud too if you prefer drafts:
13.5 PT passed sba and aga sire

5903919

Timber · Jun 7, 2020 2:23 PM

@fallenshadow714 oh yeah, I saw that and was still like "Dur, how do I tell if they have DP?" I are silly chicken.

I appreciate everyone's help. I've picked out two boot strap Stallions and I plan to divide my copious amounts of unused mares between them.

I went ahead and pasture bred one to some mares and even without pasture bonus, I'm seeing papers and PT scores I wouldn't have seen for three more generations with plain old line breeding. I knew boot strapping was effective but not this effective.

Now to find someone to help me get more pasture space. Lol

kintara · Jun 7, 2020 8:27 PM

As you have probably noticed, high pt stallions for bootstrapping are pretty easy to get hold of. Bootstraps as a stand alone aren't worth heaps, but they are certainly worth it to build up the show herd, and a fun way to breed various colours as well. Your new foundation stallion is lovely though, pick out some nice foundation mares to keep for him and breed up a small generational line on the side!

Timber · Jun 8, 2020 2:33 AM

He might just become the patriarch of all my lines lol. A black mare got mixed into his mares and the colt they produced was too pretty to pass up. I going to use that colt as the starter for another herd. A black herd that I hope to someday inject some thunderstruck into.

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