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Appaloosa pattern genetics?
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So I am wanting to focus on breeding massively spotted appaloosas, but I'm curious to know if there's a gene in the game that codes for the size and frequency of the spots? I know the PATN1 gene tends to a large white with leopard spotting, is that all? And if anyone knows, what are the genes that cause an appaloosa to not have the spots?
as in this
Argentos
verses this
Juan Miguel -
@ChristaOsar The table partway down the page was helpful to me :)
https://www.animalgenetics.us/equine/coat_color/PATN1.aspThanked by 1SpottedMarvels -
Okay, I'll give this a try. Lol. Appaloosa spotting patterns are governed by several genes in game, and we can only see two of them in gene testing. LP is the main gene that triggers the appaloosa patterns to show. Without LP, you get no appaloosa markings, but with it you can get anything from a blanket that may be so tiny it's almost invisible to one that may cover most of the horse, depending on the hidden genes and PATN1, which is testable and makes the effects of LP bigger and stronger.
One LP alone will make a small spotted blanket, sometimes so small the horse looks solid except for a speckled muzzle. One LP plus one PATN makes a large spotted blanket, and one LP plus two PATN makes a leopard with spots all over. Two LP with no PATN will make a small solid white blanket, two LP with one PATN makes a large white blanket, and two LP with two PATN makes a mostly white horse with only a few spots, usually with some color on the head, lower legs, and tail.
Spot size is definitely inheritable from what I've seen in my herd, but the genes that govern it are hidden. DP (the hidden gene that turns chestnut into liver) is one of the genes usually causing larger spots from what I see in my herd, but sometimes the other hidden genes that affect spotting can override that and still give you tiny confetti spots even on a liver. Lol~*~ Justa ~*~
Main ID# 44842 Alt ID# 54460
Chronic sufferer of shiny pony syndrome breeding all shades and sizes of Dun. If I can help you with anything, drop me a PM! :)
she/herThanked by 1SpottedMarvels -
I'm pretty sure just from my own time spent playing with appy, that there are a couple hidden gene feilds in relation to it.
Lp turns it off and on.
PATN we can see. It increases what's available.
Varnish has none, lots, and snowflake. Whites out a horse as it ages.
The two I'm guessing at:
Spot size has tiny, regular, and large.
Blanket has tiny, regular, and large.
I've been breeding tiny blanket, large spot appy for over a year now, and my preffered third gens are more likely to throw the right mix, that's what makes me think there are 3 steps each on the hidden genes.45120 -
More pigment means more likely to get the larger spot size I think, but still yes there seems to also be a genetic proponent
ChristaOsar your first horse has two Lp genes, the second has one Lp. Homozygous Lp is often called few spot for that reason -
Here is a link from a few years ago that discusses spot size. Pigment affects spot size. I think there was a discussion that sex affects spot size as well, but I don't remember enough about it.
https://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/25485/microdot-discussion/p4 -
Grey in real life increases spot size because of the pigment flood before going grey
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Definitely horses that have all 4 darkening genes (Hom DP, plus two Ssty or S+ or one of each) will have larger spots than the exact same horse with less darkening genes. Therefore if you want to breed for megadot/megaspot appy ponies you should start culling out horses with no or fewer darkening genes.
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SH Grim Grisel
Here's an example of Gray with Appie :)
G4E Snowy Rock HtSNF DP
Here's the larger spots from Hom Ssty and a DP as well.
G3ESBA Oyarsa Hom SNF
Early Snowflake Varnish
3GESBA Tristram SNF
Late Snowflake Varnish
A lot of the horses in Kintara's link are fully matured Varnish whether is regular varnish or Snowflake. So they come out white :)
Standard examples:
SH Whiteout
LpLp PATN1 PATN1
G2ESBA Truely Curious
LpLp PATN1
DPG2ESBA CherrySweets
LLp PATN1 PATN1
Lp HaphazardBlackoutExPro
LLp PATN1
G2ESBA Truly Safe Harbour
LpLp
Lp Just As Curious ExPro
LLp