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Wytchmore · Mar 9, 2019 2:09 PM

I'm curious if others hold the Exceptional Producing and Exceptionally Perfect Red-papered mares to a higher AFPT standard than their Yellow-papered sisters. For instance, does anyone expect them to maintain a 10.3 AFPT as opposed to a 9.9?

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Mar 9, 2019 4:08 PM

I don't cull my foundations or PT test my 2G's so I can't really say, Additionally sometimes I bootstrap mares which would very significantly change the AFPT but....

With your regular create foundation they can be any breeding level under 100%. For arguments sake let's say a foundation mare that passed SBA will be between 95% and 100% breeding level. Since both of these have passed SBA and are yellow papered we then go to AFPT to determine which is the higher quality. Which as we all know to variations of pasture bonus, sire and luck is iffy at best.

With exceptionally perfects, and exceptional producers you know for 100% sure that there are are of 105% breeding ability. Because of this I don't think there would be any benefit in culling them by AFPT, because you know if any one shows off as better or worse you know it's just luck. Same with PF horses. You know that they are of 100% breeding ability.

Hope this helps!

GeneverGinger · Mar 9, 2019 4:20 PM

I also don't PT test my 2nd gen fillies, so judging foundation mares by AFPT isn't accurate for me, since it just covers the colts and spelds.

If I'm looking to cull foundations, first I use genetics (including things like height). If they fit all the criteria I'm looking for (because my breeding goals have changed over time, they don't always), then I actually look through the search list of their offspring. I particularly pay attention to the SBA pass rates of those offspring -- are they mostly in the show barn, or in pasture? How many kids do they have relative to their age, and did I sell off/sell back very many of them?

I think you'll find there are as many different approaches as their are players, almost. But I hope that's useful info anyway!

Lallyhop · Mar 10, 2019 3:31 AM

As HUSG says, if it's a foundation you know the quality of (PF or expro/experf) then AFPT has pretty much zero impact - it's all luck and the stud. AFPT is used to help you determine the hidden percentage of a mare relative to her peers, while all perfect/experf foundies have a known percentage that's the exact same as every other one, 100% for PF and 105% for ExPerf. AFPT can come somewhat handy with the unknown creates, like ones you grab for color, but as long as they pass BA/SBA you know they're good enough to breed.

Like Ginger, I cull my foundie ladies on genes and height/weight. You'd be surprised how hard it can get to get a herd big enough to cover most of a 100 acre pasture that all have "special" genes, especially if you do what I did and move your foundation herd towards experf/pro only (with the exception of my SPW herd). The payoff of getting second gen A/blues popping up is worth it to me, though. :D

Haltanny · Mar 10, 2019 5:15 PM

I do test my 2nd gens, but i don't cull my foundation mares on AFPT either. I cull based on color. I'm working on converting 2 of my lines to black and brown (and chestnuts with blacknor brown genes) only, so first i'm replacingany mares with a bay gene, then I'll replace the wild bays (although i'm less strict with wild bay in one line). One is nearly done and nearly all expro, the other is close but mixed quality. And my last line i've already rounded up enough non sooty DP mares. I keep RS that dont fit any lines in a separate barn just because i'm a collector, i use them mostlyfor ET. Mares that are removed from breeding are usually spayed and join the show herd, depending on how many points they have.

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